Tag Archives: latest-vat-news

VAT: Are digital newspapers newspapers?

By   14 March 2018
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Are digital newspapers zero rated?

Background

A long running argument has reached the First Tier Tribunal (FTT) in the case of The News Corp case. The issue was whether digital versions of newspapers should share similar VAT treatment to traditional paper newspapers (in this case; The Times, The Sunday Times, The Sun and The Sun On Sunday) and therefore be zero rated.

Arguments

The contention by the appellant was that the digital editions of the titles are “newspapers” on the basis that they are the digital equivalent of the daily editions produced on ordinary newspaper printing paper (“newsprint”). In respect of the process of news-gathering and journalism, there is no distinction between the newsprint and digital editions. Content is produced by a single newsroom under a single editor. The website and tablet editors sit within the newsroom team and are part of the journalistic process. Thus, the manner in which the newsprint and digital editions are compiled is identical until the point at which the content is laid out for transposition onto the physical or digital medium. There was, therefore, essentially no difference in the journalistic content or news teams for the newsprint and digital editions.  It was also submitted that Item 2 Group 3 of Schedule 8 of VATA 1994 (below) should be interpreted purposively. The purpose of the provision was to promote literacy, the dissemination of information and democratic accountability. There was, however, a further principle of statutory interpretation which formed an important part of the appellant’s case. This principle was that legislation once enacted had to be kept up-to-date with, technological advances so that a statutory provision is “always speaking”. This was important in the present case because digital editions of newspapers did not exist in 1973 when VAT was introduced.

HMRC argued simply, that they do not fall within the definition of “newspapers” which is confined to newsprint newspapers.

Decision

Unsurprisingly, the appeal was dismissed on the grounds that digital newspapers are not covered by the zero rating provision at VAT Act 1994, Schedule 8, Group 3, which zero rates, inter alia, “newspapers” (Item 2). Group 3 provides as follows:

“Group 3—Books, etc
 Item No
1 Books, booklets, brochures, pamphlets and leaflets.
2 Newspapers, journals and periodicals.
3 Children’s picture books and painting books.
4 Music (printed, duplicated or manuscript).
5 Maps, charts and topographical plans.
6 Covers, cases and other articles supplied with items 1 to 5 and not
separately accounted for…”

This relief clearly relates to physical goods.  Consequently, it was necessary to determine whether digital newspapers are goods or services (which would not be covered by Group 3). It was decided that the supply in question was of “electronically supplied services” and this fact was fatal to the appellant’s case.  Therefore the standard rate applied if the place of supply of the services was in the UK.

The judge further noted (on the “always speaking” point) that EC legislation contains a “standstill” date of 1 January 1991 with regard to zero rating by EU Member States. Thus, the CJEU held that the scope of zero rating provisions cannot be extended beyond their 1991 limits and that they must be interpreted strictly. In the judge’s view, to extend Item 2 Group 3 beyond the supply of goods (newsprint newspapers) to cover the supply of services (digital newspapers) would be an impermissible expansion of the zero rating provisions.

So the answer is; digital newspapers are not newspapers.

VAT: Fulfilment Businesses – HMRC announce new rules

By   12 March 2018
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The Fulfilment Businesses (Approval Scheme) Regulations 2018

New regulations come into place on 1 April 2019 which will affect fulfilment businesses (entities which carry out the process of taking an order and executing it by making it ready for delivery to its intended customer, usually involving warehouse pickup, packaging, labelling, etc).  These are known as The Fulfilment Businesses (Approval Scheme) Regulations 2018 and apply to businesses distributing goods to customers in the UK on behalf of suppliers based in countries outside the EU (third countries). The regulations set out that such businesses will be required to be approved by HMRC in order to carry on its activities. Voluntary registration will begin from 1 April 2018.

The rules cover:

  • how to register
  • how and when to make an application for approval
  • the obligations under the scheme (which include the requirement to carry out due diligence in respect of the third party suppliers and verifying a third country customer’s VAT registration number)
  • and, as always with VAT; the penalties for breaches of the regulations

The Finance (No. 2) Act 2017, section 49(1) provides that a person may not carry on a third country goods fulfilment business otherwise than in accordance with an approval given by the HMRC. A person carries on a third country goods fulfilment business if they meet the test set out in section 48 of the Finance (No. 2) Act 2017 . This test may be summarised as:

  • a person carries on a third country goods fulfilment business if the person, by way of business;
    • stores third country goods which are owned by a person who is not established in a Member State, or
    • stores third country goods on behalf of a person who is not established in a Member State,

at a time when the conditions below are met in relation to the goods.

The conditions are that:

  • there has been no supply of the goods in the United Kingdom for the purposes of VATA 1994, and
  • the goods are being offered for sale in the United Kingdom or elsewhere

Usually, but not always, these are goods purchased online. Goods are “third country” goods if they have been imported from a place outside the EU.

These regulations follow on from measures announced in 2016 which state that HMRC will direct certain representatives for overseas businesses to appoint a VAT representative with joint and several liability for online marketplaces. The measures enable HMRC to hold an online marketplace jointly and severally liable for the unpaid VAT of an overseas business that sells goods in the UK via that online marketplace.

These measures further strengthen HMRC’s hand in an area which they consider a substantial amount of VAT is lost to them.

Please contact us if these new rules affect you or your clients.

VAT: Making Tax Digital (MTD) New Regulations

By   5 March 2018
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The regulations for MTD have been published. These are known as The Value Added Tax (Amendment) Regulations 2018 and full details are available here

The Regulations set out that businesses to which the Regulations apply (see below) will be required to retain electronic records using functional compatible software and submit VAT returns via an Application Programming Interface (API) platform. HMRC has previously announced that acceptable software will include spreadsheets, but these will be required to be used in specific ways.

We are yet to see precise details of the relevant software and API platform, but it makes sense for VAT registered businesses to consider the implications of MTD and to plan for its introduction. 1 April 2109 seems a way off, but as always, it’s best not to wait until the last minute.  We expect more information in the coming months and we will endeavour to keep you up to date.

Background

MTD for VAT will come into effect from 1 April 2019. From that date, businesses with a turnover above the VAT threshold (currently £85,000) will have to:

  • keep their records digitally (for VAT purposes only), and;
  • provide their VAT return information to HMRC through MTD functional compatible software

What is compatible software?

The VAT Notice defines “functional compatible software” as “a software program or set of compatible software programs the functions of
which include—recording and preserving electronic records in an electronic form; providing to HMRC information from the electronic
records and returns in an electronic form and by using the API platform; and receiving information from HMRC using the API platform in
relation to a person’s compliance with obligations under these Regulations which are required to be met by use of the software”.

Submission to HMRC may be either through linking/bridging software or via API enabling the spreadsheets to access HMRC APIs and report data to HMRC systems.

What HMRC say about MTD

MTD was introduced with the following comments:

“The government recognises that the majority of businesses want to get their tax right, but the latest tax gap figures published by HMRC show that too many otherwise compliant businesses find this hard, even some who use an agent to help them. As a result over £8 billion a year in tax is lost from avoidable taxpayer errors.  This not only costs the public purse, it also causes businesses cost, uncertainty and worry when HMRC is forced to intervene to put things right.

HMRC wants to do more to help businesses get their tax right and MTD is a very important step in that direction. It will help businesses steer clear of avoidable errors, and give them a clearer view of their tax position in-year.

Businesses (including self-employed and landlords) will keep records of their income and expenditure digitally, and send summary updates quarterly to HMRC from their software (or app).

MTD will bring the tax system into line with what businesses and individuals now expect from other online service providers: a modern digital experience

MTD will help businesses get their tax and NICs right first time. That will reduce the likelihood of errors, giving businesses greater certainty

MTD is anticipated to take out around 10% of error on an ongoing basis, and give businesses a clearer view of their tax position in-year, enabling them to plan to meet their tax obligations at minimum cost and minimum disruption…”

 Please contact us if you have any queries or would like to discuss MTD.

VAT – Latest on the Nesquik case

By   23 February 2018
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Latest from the courts

I covered the Nesquik first Tier Tribunal (FTT) case here Well, legal matters have since moved on and the case reached the Upper Tribunal (UT) recently. Nestlé UK Limited the manufacturer of Nesquik appealed against the FTT’s decision that its fruit flavoured products are subject to 20% VAT despite the chocolate flavour being zero rated.

Unfortunately for Nestlé , the UT decision went against it and banana and strawberry Nesquik remains standard rated. Similar contentions (to those in the FTT case) were advanced by the taxpayer, however the UT dismissed Nestlé’s appeal.

The Tribunal recognised that there is not currently a logical and consistent regime which applies to VAT on food (there is a long list of examples which include gingerbread men, smoothies, various types of crisps, not to mention Jaffa cakes….).  I think most advisers could not agree more with the judge and I echo the comments I made after the FTT case: the entire legislation relating to food needs a complete overhaul.

Full details of the case here

Digitisation of the VAT Retail Export Scheme – Update

By   23 February 2018
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What is the VAT Retail Export Scheme (VAT RES)?

The VAT RES allows:

  • overseas visitors (generally, persons who live outside the EC) to receive a refund of VAT paid on goods exported to destinations outside the EC
  • retailers to zero-rate goods sold to entitled customers when they have the necessary evidence of export and have refunded the VAT to the customer

Such treatment is subject to a number of conditions:

  • the customer must be entitled to use the scheme
  • the goods must be eligible to be purchased under the scheme*
  • the customer must make the purchase in person and complete the form at the retailer’s premises in full
  • the goods must be exported from the ECby the last day of the third month following that in which the goods were purchased
  • the customer must send the retailer or the refund company evidence of export stamped by Customs on an official version of Form VAT 407, an approved version of Form VAT 407 or an officially approved invoice
  • the retailer or the refund company must not zero-rate the supply until the VAT has been refunded to the customer

Typically, a retailer will charge UK VAT to an overseas visitor until the visitor has returned the appropriate documentation which has been suitably stamped at the port of departure from the UK.

* Certain goods are excluded from VAT RES. These include; motor vehicles for personal export, boats sold to visitors who intend to sail them to a destination outside the EC, goods over £600 in value exported for business purposes, goods exported as freight or unaccompanied baggage, unmounted gemstones, bullion, goods consumed in the UK and goods purchased by mail order including those purchased over the Internet. (This list is not exhaustive).

Full details of VAT RES scheme here https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-notice-704-vat-retail-exports/vat-notice-704-vat-retail-exports

VAT RES is a voluntary scheme and retailers do not have to operate it. Those who do must ensure that all the conditions set out in the above notice are met. In certain areas (such as the West End of London) businesses which offer VAT RES have a commercial/price advantage over those shops which do not.

So what is new?

HMRC has recently (this month) provided an update on their project to digitise the VAT RES system, to improve the efficiency for both retailers and travellers, and also to help reduce fraud. Details here

https://www.att.org.uk/sites/default/files/180213%20VAT%20Retail%20Export%20Scheme.pdf

We are able to advise further on this matter if required.

VAT: Latest from the courts – Hastings Insurance Place Of Supply

By   22 February 2018
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In the First Tier Tribunal (FTT) case of Hastings Insurance the issue was where was the place of supply (POS) of services?

The POS rules determine under which VAT regime the supply is treated, whether the associated input tax may be recovered and how the services are reported. Consequently, determining the POS for any supply is vitally important because getting it wrong may not only mean that tax is overpaid in one country, but it is not declared in the appropriate country so that penalties and interest are levied. Getting it wrong also means that the input tax position is likely to be incorrect; meaning that VAT can be over or underclaimed.  The rules for the POS of services are notoriously complicated and even subtle differences in a business’ situation can produce a different VAT outcome.

Background

Hastings is an insurance services company operating in the UK.  The appeal relates to whether the appellant was able to recover input tax it incurred in the UK which was attributable to supplies of; broking, underwriting support and claims handling services made to a Gibraltar based insurance underwriter (Advantage) which supplied motor insurance to UK customers through Hastings. In order to obtain credit for the relevant input tax, the supply to Advantage must have a POS outside the EU, eg: the recipient had a place of belonging in Gibraltar and not the UK. HMRC argued that Advantage belonged in the UK so that the input tax could not have been properly recoverable.  Consequently, the issue was where Advantage “belonged” for VAT purposes.

The POS rules set out where a person “belongs”.

A taxable person belongs:

  • where it has a business establishment, or;
  • if different, where it has a fixed establishment, or;
  • if it has both a business establishment and a fixed establishment (or several such establishments), where the establishment is located which is most directly concerned with the supply

Further details on this point are explained here

Contentions

It was not disputed that Advantage had a business establishment in Gibraltar. The question was whether it also had a fixed establishment in the UK and, if so, whether the supplies of services were made to that fixed establishment rather than to its business establishment in Gibraltar. HMRC contended that Advantage had a fixed establishment in the UK which was “more directly concerned with the supply of insurance” such that the POS was the UK. This was on the basis that Advantage had human and technical resources in the UK which were actually used to provide its services to UK customers. Hastings obviously argued to the contrary; that Advantage had no UK fixed establishment and that services were supplied to, and by, Advantage in Gibraltar.

Technical

It may be helpful to look briefly at CJEU case law which considered what an establishment other than a business establishment is. It is: “characterised by a sufficient degree of permanence and a suitable structure in terms of human and technical resources”, where looking at the location of the recipient of the supply, “to enable it to receive and use the services supplied to it for its own needs” or, where looking at the location of the supplier, “to enable it to provide the services which it supplies”. 

Decision

The FTT concluded that the input tax in dispute is recoverable because it was attributable to supplies made to Advantage on the basis that it belonged outside the EU (as interpreted in accordance with the relevant EU rules and case law). After a long and exhaustive analysis of the facts the summary was;

  • The appellant’s human and technical resources, through which it provided the services to Advantage, did not comprise a fixed establishment of Advantage in the UK, whether for the purposes of determining where Advantage made supplies of insurance or where the appellant made the supplies of its services.
  • Even if, contrary to the FTT’s view, those resources comprised a fixed establishment in the UK, there is no reason to depart from the location of Advantage’s business establishment in Gibraltar as the place of belonging/supply in the circumstances of this case.

Summary

If this case affects you or your clients it will be rewarding to consider the details of the arrangements which are helpfully set out fully in the decision. This was, in my opinion, a borderline case which could have been decided differently quiet easily.  A significant amount of the evidence produced was deemed inadmissible; which is an interesting adjunct to the main issue in itself. Whether HMRC take this matter further remains to be seen.  It is always worthwhile reviewing a business’ POS in depth and we are able to assist with this.

The ABC of VAT

By   12 February 2018
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VAT Basics

Jargon Buster

Unfortunately, VAT is littered with phrases, acronyms and jargon which can be impenetrable to people that have to deal with the tax.  I have explained the main terms used below and tried to demystify the gobbledygook!

Accounting period

This is the period of time reported in your VAT Return, usually three months.

Acquisitions

Goods brought into the UK from other EC countries (different from goods brought into the UK from outside of the EC; which are known as imports).

Capital Goods Scheme (CGS)

A mechanism for spreading the input tax incurred on certain goods exceeding £50,000 or property exceeding £250,000 of standard-rated cost.

Consideration

Something that is done or given in exchange for something else. Consideration can be in monetary or non-monetary form. If there is no consideration there is no supply.

Corporate body

An incorporated body, eg; a limited company, limited liability partnership, friendly, industrial or provident society.

Distance sales

When a business in one EC country sells and ships goods directly to consumers in another EC country, eg; internet sales.

Exempt supply

A supply that is exempt from VAT by law eg; rent, insurance and financial services.  It is not a taxable supply and generally does not allow the recovery of VAT incurred on associated expenditure.

Exports

Goods sent to countries outside of the EC.

Dispatches

Goods sent to another EC country.

Imports

Goods brought into the EC from countries outside of the EC.

Input tax

Refers to the VAT you pay on your purchases – goods or services you use when running your business.

Invoice

Document provided by a taxable person to customer/client. It must contain certain information.

New building

A commercial building less than three years old where a freehold disposal is compulsorily standard-rated.

Non-residential

A building not used as a dwelling.

Option to tax

Changes the supply of a commercial property from exempt to standard rated.  This is done solely to recover or avoid input tax attributable.

Output tax

Refers to the VAT you charge on your sales which your clients/customers pay you.

Outside the scope of VAT

Goods and services that are completely outside the scope of VAT altogether, eg; taxes, supplies in other countries, TOGCs and wages paid to employees.

Partial exemption

A business which incurs input tax relating to both taxable and exempt activities is partially exempt and will probably not be able to recover all of its input tax.

Place of supply

The country where a supply of goods or services is deemed to be made for VAT purposes. This is the country in which VAT must be accounted for.

Reduced rate

The rate applied to essential goods and services, such as gas and electricity for residential purposes. Currently at 5%.

Registration

Being VAT registered – accounting for output tax on sales and recovering input tax.  A business needs to VAT register when its turnover exceeds certain limits.

Self-billing

Where a customer raises a self-billing document and sends a copy to its supplier with its payment – rather than the supplier issuing an invoice.

Standard rate

A taxable supply subject to UK VAT at the current standard rate of 20%.

Supply

Providing goods or services in return for consideration, normally monetary.

Supply of goods

When exclusive ownership of goods passes from one person to another.

Supply of services

Supply, for consideration, of something provided which is not goods.

Tax period

(Also known as accounting period) The period of time covered by your VAT return. Usually quarterly or monthly.

Taxable person

Any business which supplies goods or services and is required to be registered for VAT.  This includes; individuals, partnerships, companies, clubs, associations and charities etc.

Taxable supplies

Goods and services supplied by a taxable person which are liable to VAT at the standard, reduced or zero rate. They usually permit the recovery of VAT incurred on the costs incurred in making them.

Taxable turnover

Taxable turnover is the total value, net of VAT, of the taxable supplies you make in the UK within one year.  It is used to establish whether registration is necessary.

Tax point (Time of supply)

The date when a business must account for VAT on supplies and when input tax may be reclaimed. This dictates on what VAT return the transaction is accounted for.

Transfer Of A Going Concern (TOGC)

A sale of a business which continues after transfer.  This is a VAT free transaction if certain tests are met.

Zero-rated

Is a taxable supply but subject to UK VAT at a rate of 0%.

VAT: More flexibility on VAT rates, less red tape for small businesses

By   18 January 2018
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The European Commission (EC) has today proposed new rules which it is claimed will give Member States more flexibility to set VAT rates and to create a better tax environment to help SMEs flourish.

The proposals are the final steps of the EC’s overhaul of VAT rules, with the creation of a single EU VAT area to dramatically reduce the €50 billion lost to VAT fraud each year in the EU, while supporting business and securing government revenues.

Further details: “Action Plan on VAT – Towards a single EU VAT“

VAT: Disclosure of Avoidance Schemes – new rules

By   15 January 2018
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What needs to be disclosed, and by whom?

The Disclosure of Avoidance Schemes (VAT & Other Indirect Taxes) rules came into effect this month. HMRC Notice 799 sets out the new disclosure rules which are wider than the previous rules and now apply to all indirect taxes (ie; Insurance Premium Tax, General betting Duty, Pool Betting Duty, Remote Gaming Duty, Machine Games Duty, Gaming Duty, Lottery Duty, Bingo Duty, Air Passenger Duty, Hydrocarbon Oils Duty, Tobacco Products Duty, Duties on Spirits, Beer, Wine, Made-Wine and Cider, Soft Drinks Industry Levy, Aggregates Levy, Landfill Tax, Climate Change Levy and Customs Duties) – not just VAT.

The Notice contains information on what to do if a person promotes or uses arrangements (including any scheme, transaction or series of transactions) from 1 January 2018 that will, or are intended to, provide the user with a VAT or other indirect tax advantage when compared to adopting a different course of action.

The information includes:

  • What arrangements must be disclosed to HMRC
  • Who has responsibility to disclose notifiable proposals or arrangements to HMRC
  • Deciding who is a promoter of notifiable proposals or arrangements
  • Deciding who is an introducer of a notifiable proposal
  • What the obligations are as a promoter of notifiable proposals or arrangements
  • What the obligations are as an introducer of a notifiable proposal
  • What the obligations are as a user of notifiable arrangements including when there is a responsibility to disclose
  • How to make a disclosure to HMRC

It is crucially important to establish who is required to notify HMRC and of what. The rules do not just cover tax advisers but may also affect businesses directly.  

The effect of disclosure

A disclosure under the new rules has no effect on the tax position of any person who uses the arrangements. However, a disclosed arrangement may be challenged by HMRC or may be rendered ineffective by legislative action by Parliament.

Please contact us if you think any of the above affects you.

VAT: How well did HMRC perform?

By   15 January 2018
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The Public Accounts Committee has published its report on HMRC’s Performance in 2016–17. Things are far from rosy…

The report highlights concerns for customer service from growing challenges facing HMRC. It states that HMRC is undertaking 15 major transformation programmes and comments that “With Brexit it faces additional pressures and is having to consider how to change priorities. It needs to be clear about what it will do differently, or not do, and what the impact will be on customer service.”

“Together with the Treasury, HMRC has to make tough decisions on how it allocates limited resources to its operations to increase tax revenues, protect performance levels, prioritise its transformation and estate programmes, and invest in measures to tackle tax evasion, fraud and error.”

Comments from the Committee Chair, Meg Hillier MP do not hold back:

“HMRC’s transformation programme would have been less risky had it not attempted to do everything at the same time. What was already a precarious high-wire act is now being battered by the winds of Brexit, with potentially catastrophic consequences. Action arising from allegations in the so-called Paradise Papers could also significantly increase the authority’s workload.  HMRC accepts something has to give and it now faces difficult decisions on how best to use its limited resources—decisions that must give full consideration to the needs of all taxpayers. In particular we are concerned about the effect on people simply trying to pay their fair share. HMRC’s customer service has improved on the appalling levels of recent years but its claims about call-answering times don’t stack up. Any new deterioration would be wholly unacceptable.”

There are concerns too about the impact of changes in the welfare system, which could increase the financial risks faced by vulnerable Tax Credits claimants. At the same time, the level of Tax Credits fraud and error has gone up and is only going to get worse.

These are serious, pressing challenges for HMRC, requiring swift and coordinated action in Government. As a matter of urgency the authority must set out a coherent plan and demonstrate it is fit for the future.”

Conclusions and recommendations

Specifically, there are eight conclusions and recommendations which are summarised below:

  • The ‘Paradise Papers’ leak suggests potentially serious and extensive allegations of tax evasion and avoidance.

Recommendation: HMRC should obtain the information from the ‘Paradise Papers’ as soon as possible, and report back to the Committee by March 2018 to set out its response, including any additional revenue likely to be at stake.

  • HMRC is unclear how far it can close the tax gap with existing resources.

Recommendation: HMRC should set target levels for reduction of the tax gap, including for the SME sector, and set out how HMRC will be more responsive to emerging risks.

  • HMRC’s transformation programme is not deliverable as planned due to unrealistic assumptions, and increased pressure from the additional workload caused by Brexit.

Recommendation: HMRC should report back to the Committee by March 2018 with clear plans on how it will manage the many challenges it faces due to Brexit and its ongoing transformation programmes and update its original assumptions and amend its forecasts for its transformation programme, particularly those concerning customer demand for its various services.

  • The committee is not convinced that HMRC will obtain value for money from long-term leases, without break clauses, for its new estate of 13 large regional centres.

Recommendation: HMRC and the Government Property Unit should use their strong negotiating position to ensure they gain sufficient flexibility in the terms for the four regional centre leases yet to be signed, and should examine ways to build in greater flexibility from the eight regional centre leases already signed.

  • The committee recognises the improvements in customer service since the unacceptable levels of 2015−16, but are concerned about HMRC’s ability to maintain this level of performance.

Recommendation: HMRC should ensure it continues to deliver a consistent and reasonable level of service to all its customers. The committee will be monitoring performance and will return to this issue.

  • The average time it takes for customers to speak to an adviser when they call is longer than HMRC claims.

Recommendation: HMRC should introduce a new set of measures that better reflect the actual experience of customers. Automated telephony time should be included within the five minute speed to answer target.

  • Vulnerable people receiving Tax Credits are at increased risk of financial problems as they transfer to Universal Credit.

Recommendation: HMRC to report back to the committee by March 2018 to explain how it will take care of the interests of vulnerable people receiving Tax Credits. This should include how it will work with DWP to manage claimants’ transition to Universal Credit, and protect them against aggressive departmental activity to reclaim overpayments due to error and fraud.

  • We are alarmed to hear that the level of Tax Credits error and fraud has risen and is only going to get worse.

Recommendation: HMRC should set out its strategy for tackling Tax Credits error and fraud, given the additional risks posed by transfer to Universal Credit, including a cost-benefit analysis of its approach.

From a VAT perspective, it does seem that customer service has slightly improved from what was a completely awful level the year before. Unfortunately, this service is still unacceptable and frankly, I also find that the time waiting for a telephone call to be answered as stated by HMRC is highly dubious. Personal experience insists that they still have a great deal of work to do in this area and this is reinforced by discussions with other advisers in all areas of tax.